tv [untitled] December 1, 2011 8:00pm-8:30pm EST
this is all through the food the part is that it's over for you and for the united states is what. the. states for breaking up is hard to do the u.s. and pakistan relationship is on life support so what happens and ties between the two countries collapse completely. and the massacre of the u.s. doesn't want you to know about thousands of taliban prisoners of war killed and then birdied both by dirt and paperwork because according to the bush administration all's fair in the war on terror. and speaking of all's fair bring on the waterboarding and enhanced interrogation
tactics that's right as the u.s. senators don't see a problem with returning to our torture past. thursday december first eight pm in washington d.c. i'm liz wall and you're watching artsy starting off as our let's take a look at a relationship growing more troubled relations between the united states and pakistan seem to have reached a new low there is up there nato forces accidentally killed at least twenty four pakistani soldiers now pakistan is taking action kicking u.s. aircraft out of the country the relationship between the two countries already rocky after the u.s. swooped in and a rates accounts are in kill osama bin laden and the pakistani prime minister warns there will be no more quote business as usual with washington and president obama have this to say about relations with the country. we will
constantly evaluate our relationship with pakistan. based on is overall this helping to protect americans and our interests but there's no doubt that. you know we're not going to feel comfortable with a long term strategic relationship with pakistan if we don't think that they're mindful of our interests as well. now let's take a moment to love back on some of the key moments of the ties between the u.s. and pakistan well it kind of blossomed in one nine hundred forty seven when pakistan seeks alliance with western forces to counter india in one thousand nine hundred eighty u.s. and pakistan helped train the armed forces against soviet the soviet invasion of afghanistan but things got rocky in one nine hundred eighty eight when president bush suspends economic and military aid to pakistan ten years later the us imposes sanctions after pakistan test fired nuclear devices that's forward to two thousand
and one right after the september eleventh attacks george president george w. bush declares war on terror and pakistan promises to help in two thousand i'm president obama announces af pak strategy to destroy al qaeda havens with an pakistan and afghanistan and more recently in two thousand and ten the us ramps up drone strikes to record numbers and hundreds of pakistani civilians reportedly killed in the process back in may u.s. troops assassinate osama bin laden on pakistani territory and in august of two thousand and eleven pakistan gives china the remnants of the u.s. helicopter that went down there know some of the london sas nation and then just this past monday nato drone kills twenty four pakistani troops and it's hacked that president obama has yet to apologize for so each a recent of them we are seeing this relationship spiral downward sort of ties between the u.s. and pakistan on the brink of breaking to correspond a marine
a port in iowa takes a closer look at what's happening between the two countries today. relationships are never easy but when it comes to the partnership between america and papa stan the sugardaddy of this geo political alliance has turned out to be islamic bods most dangerous friend in a post nine eleven world pakistan joined forces with the us in the war on terror perceiving roughly eighteen billion dollars in return over the past ten years yet hundreds of pakistani civilians have been killed in the u.s. drone strikes targeting terrorist most recently nato had to admit it killed two dozen pakistani soldiers. this sent protesters onto the streets of islamabad torching and effigy of president barack obama burning american flags and demanding an immediate worse from its american partners this is
hardly the first problem the pakistani sovereignty has been infringed by the united states is not the first time that pakistani citizens have been killed by the united states and its allies it seems to be the case now. regards pakistan as a kind of free fire zone in which. to abuse the country's sovereignty with no need for poetry or redress nido has called the incident tragic and an intended promising to investigate killings the pakistani government has demanded the us vacate an air base used for drone attacks it's also closed a vital u.s. military supply route to afghanistan a third to one half of all supplies that go to the nato forces go through pakistan so this is going to have a major impact there's no question about it the biggest rift between the two countries came six months ago when the u.s. violated pakistani sovereignty to assassinate osama bin ladin we've lost respect
because people now feel. the united states because we're like a drunken person will go to war anywhere if you threaten us now this in his prime minister has come out and said there would be no more business as usual with washington there are clear choices produce what america historically speaking i do . and i'm going to parkland all point of approach is more to go it can give the world war and war and war being everyone pakistan has been america's main ally in the region for decades but constant abuse of the partnership by the u.s. has driven a wedge between the two many believe that pakistan's case highlights that a u.s. bearing gifts will leave the stop at nothing to get what it wants marina for a mile r.t. new york and to talk more about the implications of all of this earlier i spoke to
scott horton contributing editor on legally on national security matters for harper's magazine he told me why it us he thinks that the u.s. and pakistani relations out had an all time low take a lot. i think there's no question about this since. independence the relationship has never been as torn to this right now this last year two thousand and eleven has been the rockiest year yet and their relationship and yielded a very specific incident so that punctuate the first to be early in the year we had . the raymond davis. acting cia station chief who shot and killed two pakistanis who turned out to be intelligent so exhilarating then of course we had the osama bin laden raid which i think from the perspective of us was a must have to be done and fully justified but nevertheless was hugely embarrassing
to practice efforts of course really reveal the fact that he was there obviously operating under the protection of senior military figures and the raid with our without getting permission seventy authorities and now we have this latest and spent well with the death already for up especially soldiers so we had two incidents clearly are serious mistakes that the americans say that that's seriously degraded the relationship that we're seeing pakistan and it's taking action they ordered the u.s. to get out and take care of your own along with them is this a sign that pakistan is now more willing to stand up to washington. well i think you know we have to realize first of all that the pakistani state is not a monolith in fact we can do is as split down the middle there is an enormous military and intelligence establishment the general staff and the i.s.i.
that has for decades been either in fact it's formed the government by pushing out popularly elected civilian government or it's been a sort of interstate that really runs the country from within that's the relationship that is the most stretched at this point for us then there is the relationship with the elected civilian. government that that actually is pretty good notwithstanding the remarks you just heard from the prime minister. so if guy is the brink continues to go down how what does that mean for the war on terror. the pakistani military my cooperate with the taliban what would this plan mean. well i think we have to view it first of all and a larger political context but this certainly figures goes on about to.
pakistan has carefully cultivated over decades and alternative great power relationship that is with trying them and mediately after this border incident there were reports circulating in august time that the chinese would be given the go ahead to construct a naval facility on pakistani soil so i think you see back to the war but. do i think it's unlikely that we see a complete terminations of the relationship with the united states i think it's more likely that you'd see the spending down on the expensive operations that the u.s. intelligence community have in practice. the cia the cia clearly has hundreds of covert operatives there it's been operating an enormous drone war two hundred seventy two strikes by your own since two thousand or so it's for
a perceptive years but the united states is a code words not just the word operation but there's really no big word about it it's reported on it's really understood it's widely discussed or there been here i think most likely that's going to be the particular targets of the pakistani military and their worship service and that was a contributing editor at harper's magazine scott horton. now i want to take a look at what could be one of the worst atrocities in the war on terror yet many americans don't even know what happened this month marks the ten year anniversary of the massacre that took place in afghanistan and happen at dosh the literally it located in the desert of northern afghanistan near shah bargain charges that an afghan warlord warlord took custody of thousands of taliban prisoners from u.s. forces and then allowed them to die witnesses say that prisoners were crammed into metal containers and transported to show bargain to the shark in prison for it but many of them did not make it to their destination alive over
a three day period some witnesses say up to three thousand suffocated to death or were sprayed by bullets their bodies thrown into a mass grave at the site. general of bill rashid dostum the afghan leader that's a charge of this operation happens to be a u.s. ally but it's unclear what role the u.s. played but u.s. forces were stationed nearby and someone to say the united states knew all about this. and at the time the bush administration refused to look into the incident claiming it was an internal matter for the afghan authorities but a promise by president obama to investigate ten years later what exactly happened and what role the u.s. played in these events remains a mystery well in two thousand and two it team actually did go to afghanistan and investigate the grave site at national a and they made a film documenting their discovery it's called afghan massacre a convoy of back here's a piece of it after the bloodiest. war. some of the.
group to the northern alliance and u.s. special forces on the go to see who lives would be spared. today up to three thousand. in the more green. and you mackenzie is a human rights lawyer who actually visited the site in two thousand and two and he joined me a little bit earlier from london i asked him to tell me a bit about what he saw there take a listen so i accompanied the filmmaker gini go to the site does he like me. evidence that pointed to the floor i went there jamie dornan show me video he taken previously of that's the lie of the wealth witnesses who said they had been there including one guy who stated that they being part of the killing so when i arrived at the sites i thought. unfortunately i found a human remains sticking out of the grub ben hits which covered the vast expanse of
the i think were and i also thought and read a few of these which are spared cartridges one from what he thought he said and one from a smaller semiautomatic and what was interesting about these is that they corroborated what witnesses said the some of the thought these had not been dead when they arrived at the site and that small arms had been used and semiautomatic weapons that when used to kill off it for something in the pits and there were just dozens of these things scouts they're up and i took some of them because we knew the site was about to be interfered with by the northern alliance and the push up and i actually within a month or two and all the evidence disappeared after that it was relocated to somewhere else in the desert so i basically i phones evidence which corroborates it's all the evidence i seem to for the documentary are witness statements and
found that it looked like. a math or a back. this was absolutely about strafe i mean to be taking correct it's a series of musgrave's these are small pits which were dug by mechanic last of eight years with maybe a dozen or two dozen bodies in each and then another one talked to the side of that in the sight of that and so on covering a hillside up a flat side of the hill so there were moments which you could walk around you know with the ten fifteen cases you walk around this moment you should human remains thinking i mean that there were there were legs remains of arms sticking out through the ground where dogs have come because the the bodies are not uncovered sufficiently that our estimation was that taking into account their birth three thousand people seem to have disappeared there's no accounting for that and given the witness statements that there were roughly two to nothing i wouldn't call it a case in this series of pits in this musgrave actually likely other figures
conservative figure say that there are eight hundred approximately but i would simply say that no matter how many there are eight hundred or two of those with. their choices he that's occurred to us the likely unknown road to us lowly is sufficient for it to be warranted. and test the geisha in a transparent investigation by the u.s. authorities so having themed theme bad for you then our people us or afghanistan can look into the finding a friend to do an investigation. having seen the remains of things seeing said cartridges having seeing everything i expected to see it seemed clear to me that the other evidence which fell into two us servicemen being that it does the likely well the bodies were built into the ground war and since an investigation by the us authorities and quite specifically incidents like this occurring in the field
during an operation are part of the responsibility of the us from forces. the chain of command over the local authorities to the u.s. military a lot of us carol law stipulates there should be an investigation but i think ten years later if either hasn't been anything is obsolete bawling now there have been several attempts to look further and for that to conduct an investigation the obama administration promised that they wanted to but really nothing has content for west then why the bad any attempt to investigate the things that come to that end. well first of all i'd say that. about eight or nine years after the birth of the event present the bottom of that logs or the investigation he ordered his aides to supply him with a report bunch of what happens and the reports that are come to light that is in august two thousand and one. i think looking back to the beginning the reason this didn't come to light at the beginning the reason there was no investigation and the
reason that was completely an aisle of the facts at the low there's some acceptance from the u.s. military and central command. the reason that they want to not deal with that this was a source sensitive so soon after nine eleven so wearily and english operations and not in afghanistan and we have to remember that we're talking about all of what we're talking about up to two of those and both of these and one of the sites people killed you know were a short number of days with u.s. military knowing about this and having a sponsibility to stop it this took place a couple years before anything came up earth had a great before anything was really in the headlines but once upon a time in a way so you know it was a very sensitive. things a polling that same years later this is not came about because there are lots of families who are missing these two thousand people who are in this most of it and so you know we can years later i went definitely and over three am what hope do you
have that a proper investigation will become that that information. well my view is i was being this is an instance a story that will ever go away i just find impossible to believe that it's not just a few thousand people gone missing it's possibly two of them in a mass grave where we have the location of the grave we have the evidence we have forensic evidence by physicians for human rights watch this film by philip wood jamie dornan the physical evidence including spake of tejas yeah this is who police themselves there including one guy who it makes it's he did kill people but there's so much evidence that it's so there and i think one thing to do that is really push this would be is the dorms phillip mcgraw to an american face a television you know this is the it's is probably the only country in the world that hasn't shown this film and there's been that it was all media coverage and
show us media but this is the way that investigation is a source to come up the media pressure and it just hasn't happened and i'm going to have to end the interview there thank you so much for sharing that story with us that was human rights lawyer and can thank you very much. and keeping torah care alive i believe with that is calling for a return to bush territory kerry impression a lawmaker introduced the amendment which went under to president obama's executive order banning torture as an interrogation technique that amendment although aims to bring back a quote classified set of torture tactics so this that what forms of torture as a loud but the public isn't allowed to know what they are so why is congress so gung ho about torturing tactics i've spoken to a partner reagan administration official and columnist paul krugman roberts to find out they can listen to you talking about to train a. syrian troops how can research and rule which allow the u.s.
military. to pick up people in every country of the world which includes china russia and the united states and hold them indefinitely then we're talking about something that star greater than the torch of pause that we're talking about them peel the united states constitution and what we see from the vote. against the amendment by rand paul the republican senator from kentucky to exempt american citizens from this amendment to this an authorization bill that will allow the military to simply pick up any american citizen anywhere on earth and hold them indefinitely without charges. what we see is that you
can rent pausing them again for voted down well u.s. senate so we have the u.s. senate consisting of all except two the republicans plus fifteen democrats voting to repeal the united states constitution. now another there is some question as to whether these harsh interrogation tactics are also constitutional. for example waterboarding that was once torture and now it's considered now it's considered not torture they're trying to bring it back it's like the definition of death is unclear and then now there's a classified less to which it would make it so americans don't even know what forms of torture are allowed why is there that's pushed to the allow the u.s. who to engage in and torture. well i don't know why we're focused clearly on
torture since we're talking about this the cheney policy the united states government executed japanee us following world war two for waterboarding people so we should have the position states government is that waterboarding is torture we've actually executed people for doing it so i don't see how they can ever say that it's not torture. what we're up against is more than the lawlessness of the united states government in violating american statutory law are also against torture which are on the books and against violating the geneva conventions but what we're talking about is an amendment to the defense authorization bill which permits united states government to use the military in violation of the posse comitatus act which has been in
place since eight teams seventy six. and they use the military to arrest american citizens and haul them in indefinite detention with no recourse to courts of law now this constitutes the repeal of the united states constitution and when you find that we have sixty members of the elected congress who have supported us and what we see as the united states is a on its way to being a police state only two republicans in the senate voted against this amendment. only two so what do we know we we now have a republican party it is
a cause stopover party it is in favor of. united states military aggressed american citizens and putting them in concentration camps and that's what's happening right now the forest for the varanus and so what does this have to say about the climate in congress and the five a in politics and if it continues on this track where i'm a what america could end up looking like. well obama says he's going to veto this and according to the washington monthly which is a very long standing. washington publication the senate voted this way all but two republicans plus two plus fifty democrats they all voted to give this power to the military
despite the fact that the white house the pentagon f.b.i. and the cia the director of national intelligence in the justice department national security division all told the senate don't vote for this is the very bad idea here and yet they didn't. and that was former reagan administration official and columnist paul craig roberts and switching gears the euro zone is continuing to try to claw its way out of economic collapse and italy finds itself in the middle of a severe crisis with a country that nearing the two trillion girl mark it is italian for themselves to tighten their belts and save the government has other plans one that critics consider economic suicide r.t. for a four thousand. this is the end that you find me playing to combine down like these little itty bitty push it still in the development stage
final assembly line is supposed to be based in italy. everything's cool entry plan the town of the bar is a kilometer from the military base where the final stage of the f. thirty five project is supposed to take place but people here have taken to the streets to place what they say is a waste of an italian taxpayers money it is a very expensive project and now that we are in crisis you know that. is cutting pensions. school education. public health and so on the joint strike fighter program that is its name is a defense project based on international ethics with the u.s. u.k. and italy just some of the participants if the united states.
and that's why you. are such a costly venture this lease decision to purchase one hundred thirty one of these planes developed by american company lucky martin set the country back some thirteen billion year right in the projects come under widescale scrutiny to being a dish and leave the budgets take people in the world to slee extremely expensive but by project it wasn't the main issue although. well first of all. a lot of the local politicians promised jobs and so people thought well great and then we start to say well you know jobs in what is very expensive and in a moment of crisis like now to spend money on these planes a moment like this is absolutely ridiculous. it's making people really angry at least of europe now my age in the euro zone crisis leslie itself known as the cheech billion euros in debts taxpayers here's a bit tired
a country participating in military spending they don't want and don't feel they can of food. we say that the now it's the right time to military expenses. for projects we don't need. we need something else despite the government fighting when the people here over with promises of job creation they remain unconvinced while the project that they call economic suicide to distract. the virus. well that does occur now for more of the stories we covered go to our flash usa and figure you tube page at youtube dot com slash r.t. america you can also follow me on twitter at liz wahl the big picture with tom hartman is coming up in a half hour tonight tom will explain why americans are not living and a leader society that was predicted for them it years ago that's going to do.